Sharman Stone MP

Dr Sharman Stone ABC24 Interview on 'Capital Hill' with Tony Windsor MP

August 22, 2011

the carbon tax and the economy again dominated debate, but there was a resolution to a decade's old fight Zealand decade's old fight by New Zealand to import its Apples into Australia. Government decided to let the imports go ahead but with restrictions. The Qantas decision to change the way it operates has also come in for some scrutiny with complaints about its decision to sack or make re done assistant 1000 workers and one of the long-term Liberal senators Helen Coonan is about to step down. Joining me to discuss the discuss the day's events are Sharman Stone and independent MP Tony Windsor. Welcome to you both.

Good afternoon.

The Government has decided to New Zealand apples to be exported into Australia. It says there'll be says there'll be tight restrictions and it said it had to take this decision or else Australia would face penaltied under the World Trade Organization by New Zealand. Did the government have any choice?

It had a choice

choice?

It had a choice in having strong protocol. It didn't have to die as it D didn't have to die as it D what we're concerned domestic protocols, what you need to do to sell an Apple between Queenstown and in New Zealand, that will be okay when you want to send the Apple across to Australia. We're deeply worried because it is not just about apples, it is not just about apples, it is about pairs. You seep chainsawing all the dead limbs the tree does survive, they re shoot, but the pairs are stone dead and in Australia I must confess self-interest here, 80% of the pairs are grown in northern Victoria in my electorate and they're the basis of our manufacturing fruit industry, the pair juice in particular but the product. We're deeply modified this

We're deeply modified this government should have simply said we are over it. Spent years battle. We'll let years battle. We'll let it rip. No real scrutiny.

It didn't lie over. The World Trade Organisation made a decision last year that the importation of New Zealand apples should apples should be allowed to go ahead and if Government didn't comply with that the Minister Craig Emerson says Australian exports to New Zealand could face 100%

you now have to allow fresh apples into Australia, you're right. The World Trade Organisation said it is on. However, it did not say that you don't have to have strong protocols which will reduce the risk of this bacteria plus risk of this bacteria plus two other pest species curling leaf and European Kang Kerr. You done have to lie down and let it all rip which is what this government has done. We had a signal this would happen when Julia Gillard in that speech with the standing ovation in Zealand said it's all about trade really and we will lath it all N we're deeply modified and we believe, when I say we, the industry, all the employed people who hang off the growing of stone fruit in Australia, the environmentalists who know this attacks our bee industry , the people who don't want sprays used in Australia, everyone is saying why couldn't we have had protocols that said if your orchard has fire blight this season and that's typical this season and that's pretty typical in New Zealand, that season you can't have season you can't have your stuff coming across stuff coming across to Australia.

Tony Windsor, there's been there's been attention for a while between Australia's up quarantine laws and quarantine laws and our obligations under the WTO. Where do you think the should lie?

It has always been difficult. There's no doubt about it. I have some about it. I have some sympathy with the way in which this is dealt with. I agree with «Sharman» on some of this. The why why the science has been done on, this I don't think there's any... There will be fire blight come into this country. That's the great concern. The Apple producers know that once this starts, even though they're going to do the washing, they're going to do certain things on farm in relation to the presence of some of the diseases that are there now, but I've got no doubt that this... We will get the diseases from New Zealand. I don't think you can scrutiny them that close I had to make sure it doesn't happen. I think there are a think there are a few scientific issue that scientific issue that could have been reviewed a bit better.

Do you think in the government had any choice but to comply with the World Trade Organization desubmission

If you abide by their rulings, which Australia tends to do irrespective of who is in government, they probably didn't, but I think didn't, but I think given some of the science questions of the science questions that the growers have been asking, there may well have been an opportunity for much closer scrutiny than what's actually gone on.

And

gone on.

And Australian scrutiny.

We don't after our experience in the bow tan nick gardens in Melbourne in 1999. We can't say you're it over there you look after the protocols. You look after the boxes when they come.

Could we turn to the issue of Qantas. Unions and other MPs Unions and other MPs have suggested Qantas's job losses will be much worse than the 1000 Qantas is forecasting, questioning whether questioning whether Qantas can really be called an Australian airline any more. Alan the head of Qantas, says what he's attempting to do is he's attempting to do is to grow the business, to turn around areas where the business is not doing so well, and bring that growth back to that growth back to Australia. Tony Windsor, how do you see the issue? Can Qantas call the issue? Can Qantas call its the Australian airline?

I hope it can. I flew back from England in a Qantas airline it was an excellent service. I thank them for that. I have some people coming next week to see us on thissish u. There's no doubt, whether Qantas it or within the Parliament on this. It is important we don't rush off in our pre-determined directions on this about jobs and investment. I think it is important we actually get the facts facts out there so people can make an assessment. make an assessment. If there are potential breaches of the Qantas sales act and there are other issues there in terms of employment, there's allegation of asset stripping, et cetera, let's get the facts out there. There's people in the Senate and the House that are going to ask the appropriate questions. I'm not in there for a witch-hunt. I've got a great deal of admiration for Qantas and I would hate to see that it wouldn't call Australia would£ call Australia home. I think we've got to look at it through the eyes of the economics of it as well. It's no good having something that can call home that can't leave home. I think will take place.

Qantas has been a privatised business since since Labor privatised it in the mid 90s. Can the Parliament Parliament really do anything to interfere if after private business.

It is a funny business. We feel still Qantas is a national carrier. When we step on that plane we feel we're home. We do feel it is a national interest in who owns it, how it is operating, and this sounds very much like absolutely commercially driven, no question of national interest at all, and I suppose why would we be surprised. 1000 jobs re donedant or going brand is as strong as it is internationally internationally still, why internationally still, why not build on that brand rather than bring ing ina parallel carrier which is going to be premium quality based spr somewhere offshore, Singapore maybe Malaysia, it sounds like cost cutting to me with a parallel business that's going to offer competition would you competition would you think ultimately.

There may be strike action. Would you support action. Would you support that action in this context?

We all remember what happened with Ansett don't we in the strikes then. I would hate a that. I would hope cool heads would prevail for a long time before you got to that impasse. Strikes do enormous damage to the reputation of a airline in terms of its reliability terms of its reliability and security and no-one wants queues of tourists in Sydney Airport waiting while the strikers get back to business. I don't want to see strikes. I do want to see a Qantas to continue and flourish and grow, but at the moment I think it is a little bit up in the air what's going to

tax of course is dominating proceedings. The proceedings. The legislation is not into Parliament, is not into Parliament, but it is expected to be is expected to be in quite soon. There has been some accusations of bill bust erring in the Senate. Cow think it is possible for the legislation to get through Parliament by the end of the year.

Anything can happen in the Senate. I would be surprised if it doesn't get through the Parliament there. 'S a lot of work being done 'S a lot of work being done on the legislation. A lot of the work has been done through the multi climate change I have given an assurance if the legislation is similar to the agreement that I'll the agreement that I'll be supporting T I think supporting T I think there will be the numbers to get it through the Lower House. Obviously games will be played until the last breath of oxygen in this in this place on this issue.

Does it need to be through by the end of the year to guarantee a start in the middle of next year?

I'm not that familiar with that. A week here and there week here and there is probably not going to make a lot of difference.

The legislation, Tony says, it has the numbers to get through Parliament. Is there any point in trying to prolong that process?

As prolong that process?

As long as the Greens hold in the Senate yes it's going to have the numbers. They must be shocked, like Labor, in seeing the continued in fact sustained opposition to the carbon tax. I think there was probably I think there was probably a view at the beginning as people view at the beginning as people get more familiar with it and as the pension compensation deals get better deals get better known there will be a soft feping of the opposition to the tax, but there isn't. I think the Greens and thinking very hard. Unions are getting very concerned. The people at the front of the protests in my area about the closure of factories and so part of which was the future part of which was the future of carbon tax, they must talking to their Labor politicians and saying jobs, politicians and saying jobs, what about the jobs? Today at lunchtime we were talking to a big mining company that was being courted by an being courted by an offshore investor who said sovereign risk is too great in risk is too great in Australia. We can't face if we lock in but in the long-term. They're going to garner Ghana and Brazil to invest in mining. It is serious problem we have on our hands.

You've expressed the view in the past, Tony, that Julia Gillard is unlikely to win the next election. If that's the case, why go through the pain of supporting a tax when you might face a campaign against you in your own seat on the basis of that?

I think that remark was made in the context of polls, the existing polls remain the same, it is self-evident that it would be unlikely Labor would win with those numbers. Anything can happen in politics. your question directly, I don't think the Liberal Party will tear this up. I think tear this up. I think looking at some of the economic figures on this, I don't think they really want to, and Sharman made the point, some do, that some of the Labor Party people are being pressured. I are being pressured. I think they probably are. contact with liberals too who put pressure on me put pressure on me saying not everybody believes in what our leader is saying here. You stick believe in it. If it breaks out into open warfare in a sense, there could be Labor people people going one way people going one way and liberals going the other. That's unlikely, but I don't see... It would be very difficult for the liberals if they came to power next time to tear this up, unless some sort of double disillusion which is unlikely. The which is unlikely. The Senate won't be in their control anyway, and as it beds in, there are a number of things contractually and otherwise that that occur that would be very difficult to rid the Parliament of.

We do have an alternative strat are strategy. Ours doesn't mean you take all this pain, you add all the imposts, the costs to local businesses so that it is more attractive to go offshore and Alumina, our cement making and so on, our any longer to get to mission goals. Why wouldn't mission goals. Why wouldn't we bring in an alternative policy when we get into government.

Could I ask you government.

Could I ask you one quick question. will be putting in the means testing of the private health insurance re weight again. Have you made up your mind whether you're support it or not.

I'm still talking to government on that. I haven't been persuaded to change my been persuaded to change my mind from the previous occasion. It is unlikely that I would support the change that Government is proposing.

That's where very much for your time.

Thank you.

Thank you for

you.

Thank you for joining Capital Hill. Join us at the same time tomorrow.

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